My Start In Software
Hey, I’m Tony. I'm a software engineer. And not long before I started writing code I was a bartender, finishing up ...
For further actions, you may consider blocking this person and/or reporting abuse
Agreed!
When we started building our curriculum at PE, we could see where things were going and so - we've stayed away from the term "boot camp." When every course calling itself a boot camp - and everything being so drastically "streamlined" once there are no in-person options... it's almost a meaningless term. (There's even a covid vacine bootcamp!) oh my.
I made a video a while back about how to vet boot camps / or just classes or teachers in general:
Boot camps are still useful. But at the moment in this covid world that we live in. Self learning at home is going to be the best choice. Already heard about many developer focused events turning to online only or cancelled altogether. Self learning at home is great however we miss out on that face to face in person meeting where you can really bond and get to know people. It is not quite the same over some chat on a video conference.
Not only do you get that bonding experience, but there's so many studies that show that physically being in a classroom with other people helps you learn better. I think one of my issues with the online model for boot camps is that they haven't really updated their prices. In my view, the classroom environment is probably the most valuable thing you pay for, and there's no way they should be charging the same amount for online settings that they did when they held classes in-person.
I try and get people to take the class with a friend or family member. Technically... there's nothing stopping you from paying for 1 boot camp - and then teaching your 4 friends as you go. You'll probably learn 5x more.
I feel that the actual curriculum and teaching styles are a much bigger problem than the fact that it's through video-conferencing. I teach people on video all the time and it works great. In person-schools have a lot of great benefits though! I'd love to have one of those one day.
Completely agree on the teaching, not as much on the curriculum. I've found them all to be fairly similar to each other, and pretty comprehensive (that's not to say there isn't room for improvement, and you probably did just that!).
Just seeing "meet the instructor" on your site already tells me that you're thinking about the whole concept differently. I always try and tell people to try and meet whoever will be teaching you. The whole experience can vary so widely based on the quality of the instructor. I've seen all of the students in a class at one bootcamp get a job in large part because they had a phenomenal teacher. Then I've seen half the students in a different cohort at the same institution never find work because they had terrible instruction.
I've been tutoring and keeping tabs on people in almost all of the mainstream boot camps - and it's pretty clear what they're teaching and how. It's probably is a necessary jump-start for some people: but they are missing a LOT of the foundations. That's hard to correct. I started school because it's too hard to teach people at any scale if they are all at totally different levels and have wildly different mental models for things. So, I can't really help people once they get too far along. I created a 'boot-camp-rehab' discord to at least help them fill in the gap: you know HTML, CSS, and JavaScript.
Having a better grasp on the foundational stuff beforehand would have been really helpful to me. We spent maybe 2 days on HTML and CSS (in a web development boot camp!). Certain companies eagerness to throw people into their courses with little screening really irks me. They'd have higher graduation rates if they required people to really take the time to build up some of those foundations first.
And for me - I mean (I've been writing HTML and CSS every day for 10 years... and I learn new stuff every day!) - I think it's just about the order things are introduced and getting the right exercises to help them set in.
Most people (even senior devs) don't know the difference between
displayproperties likeinlineandblock, or how to position things - or basically - the main things you absolutely need to know. That's inexcusable and it's not just boot camps. It's youtube and everywhere.I think that "knowing how to code something" and being able to "teach" it - are very different. I've answered thousands of "It isn't working" type questions. Oh, it's working. It's doing exactly what you told it to do. That's how computers work. The schools aren't teaching people the actual concepts - just what to type. And they aren't teaching them to ask good questions.
They aren't spending money to figure out the best way to teach - they're spending like 20k on a technical writer and the rest on advertising and scaling.
Hey Tony, thanks for writing this! I've been checking out a few bootcamps where I live. One of them has a fairly rigorous process for getting in that involves prep and pre-application reading. That's the one I'm targeting. A big factor for me this year will be the in-person vs. online plan the bootcamps will have. I agree with some of your other comments, I do not want to pay money to sit by myself and watch videos of lessons.
If they're doing any kind of vetting beforehand that's a good sign. From what I can tell, most bootcamps are still doing live instruction, so you can at least ask questions and be in a class with other people. Definitely check out some of the great / free resources online if you're feeling hesitant at all though!
Thanks!
Anytime! Please reach out if you ever have questions.
If you are lucky enough to live in Tennessee and currently don't have a degree, you can get an associates degree tuition free. This is the route I chose mostly because I didn't have a degree and it is very much affordable. Had I had a degree, I would have most likely looked into bootcamps or self learning more.
That's awesome that Tennessee does that. I used to live in Franklin! I should have stuck around a little longer, lol.
It is a bonus for sure! I am not too far from Franklin actually. Where did you move to?
I've been all over the southeast since. I settled in Atlanta now.
Any thoughts on good alternatives to bootcamps for those who know self-study isn’t the answer for them? Looking at some post-bacc and masters programs, but not sure how well those translate into job search success.
I'm definitely not an expert when it comes to university studies and courses. I know that jobs in machine learning, ai, cloud computing, and devops are fairly future proof at this point. I feel like a program focused on one of those disciplines could translate into job success, but again, I'm no expert.
Hey Tony, thanks for sharing your detailed experience with coding bootcamps. Your story resonates with a lot of people considering this fast-track path to a tech career. I’d like to add a few points, especially on the financial side, which is crucial for many.
The Financial Commitment
Coding bootcamps come with a hefty price tag, averaging around $13,584 according to Course Report. For many, this means taking out loans or using credit cards to cover the cost. It’s important to understand the long-term financial implications of this decision.
Loans and Debt
Many bootcamps offer financing options through third-party lenders. While this can make the upfront cost more manageable, it also means committing to significant debt. Interest rates can vary, and it’s crucial to compare them with other 1000 cash loan no credit check options, such as personal loans from your bank, to ensure you’re getting the best deal. Unlike federal student loans, private loans often have higher interest rates and less flexible repayment options.
Credit Cards
Using credit cards to finance a bootcamp can be tempting, especially if you're close to your credit limit. However, credit cards typically come with high-interest rates, which can lead to mounting debt if you’re unable to pay off the balance quickly. It’s essential to have a clear plan for how you’ll manage these payments post-graduation.
Assessing the Value
While you successfully transitioned to a software engineering role, your experience highlights the variability in outcomes for bootcamp graduates. Self-motivation, the ability to network, and learning quickly on your own are key factors in determining success. For those who may struggle with these aspects, the financial risk becomes even more significant.
Alternatives to Bootcamps
As you mentioned, resources like freeCodeCamp.org offer high-quality, free education in web development. For those disciplined enough to self-teach, this can be a viable alternative that mitigates financial risk. Moreover, there are numerous online platforms, such as Coursera, Udemy, and edX, offering affordable courses in various programming languages and technologies.
Conclusion
Coding bootcamps can be a worthwhile investment for some, but they’re not a guaranteed path to success. Evaluating your learning style, financial situation, and career goals is essential before committing to a bootcamp. Additionally, considering the long-term financial implications, such as debt from loans or credit cards, is crucial to avoid ending up in a precarious financial situation.
Thanks again for your insights, Tony. Your experience provides a valuable perspective for anyone considering this route into tech.